Aeronutz News letter Dec 2002
You are invited to the next Aeronutz Fun Fly on Saturday 4th Jan 2003. 5pm until 11pm. Parklands Centre, Wigston Rd. Oadby. £8 per flier, Bring a warm jumper as the heating will be off, tables are provided. All fliers with models over 10g must be insured. Remote control machines must have semi scale appearance - on sticky looking things please! If your are unsure please check before travelling. Max. Weight for any model will be 80g. This would have been lower but we are pleased to see the super scale Falcon kit's balsa machines from Chris at RCS Technik.Super Start to New indoor year
Peter Smart and Chris Strachan are coming to our first Fun Fly of the new year on Saturday 4th. If you have not seen thier planes before you will understand why I say the Aeronutz planes are just toys! There are more photos of Peter's planes on last month news letter here. These photos do not do justice the superb art work and craftsmanship of these models - and they fly to the highest standard in the world. Maybe even more amazing is these these guys are perfect gentlemen who are happy to risk damaging their machines and chat of humble mortals like us! Can you imagine walking into the pits at a F1 race and asking the top drivers how its done?
Peter says he will bring the Constellation, Lancaster and Cessna multi engine, rubber power machines. He is also an expert with Co2 power, which he uses in his excellent vintage models, put, put, put, put ....
We hope to be able to get Peter up to speed with the latest developments in electric and micro control systems too. He hope to have a new 5F Super Capacitor powered 12" Spitfire ready for Saturday.Peter wants to convert some of his rubber power mutli engine planes to electric so he can fly them as park fliers, lithium polymer cells will be ideal for these.He says he is interested in micro ducted fans too .... Ray's you man there as he has just made some new 0.75" dia. electric ducted fan for a free flight machine.
Good to see Graham's first home design indoor flier - looks a beauty too 27" span DC3.
"The Dak can ROG from grass (providing it's very short / mossy) and it cable of a steep climb on full power. (No idea how long the KP00’s will last! Radio range poor so far - needs to be re-tested with suppression cap now fitted to motors. Flew great, LOADS of power on two lithium 140mAhr cells and 2xKP00 at 60g. Also flew outside today at the Long Mynd, as the wind dropped right down on our monthly slope outing. Flies OK, but need huge rudder throws to make it turn sometimes. No prop. wash over the rudder? (multis are very stable Ed) Flies on about 1/3 throttle, fairly slow. Too slow and it drops a wing. If it is still working in January, you can see it flying at Parklands. The wing tips have lots of wash out - pointy tips are big trouble! It is made from Depron and 2mm wall foam, mainly Depron"New generation of R/C Indoor planes.40mA Polymer cell with geared pager motor.
Last year we suggested that new folks make two cell planes. This year we have new cells and motors so here is a quick guide for designers new to indoor flying.
Mark has fitted the motor and cell to a Zero from the Ikara free flight rubber power range of profile kits (Flitehook). The kit (Depron), motor/gears/prop, Z Tron infra red three channel Rx with Esc and 40mA cell weighed 8.1g without rudder or elevator actuators. The plane was not very stable in pitch (we should be able to trim it better) but showed that the 4mm pager had enough power and it was not flying too fast either, so it looked nice. The geared motor was a bit noisy but not too bad, the prop was turning very slowly but that will be refined with a carbon fibre version later. The 40 mA cell can only handle 150 to 200mA so the motor and control system have to be designed accordingly (a standard outdoor servo uses about that much power!). We are using the direct battery voltage which starts at 4v and goes down to 3 volts. We normally booster the voltage up to 5v but a voltage boosters would increase current consumption considerably which would over load the cell. You don't get a lot of power from a Dia 4mm pager at 3.5v ! So big gears are used to turn a large diameter (about 100m diameter) prop. Large dia, props are much more efficient but don't look scale and maybe too big for the undercarriage. Mark's gear box is designed to be small so the motor assembly can be fitted inside the nose of the plane. The first design produced 5g of thrust at 4v and 180mA of current. Ray test flew the Zero using throttle only and says he did not use full power, the one good flight we had went on for several laps of our 8 badminton court hall without the plane showing signs of loosing power so it's a good guess we where using something like 150mA ? (See Andrews photo below) The control system will use a proportional memory metal actuator for lightness and probably start off by being quiet crude on the basis that 10” span, 8g plane doesn't need much steering to miss the walls. The actuator will run from the cell via transistors, using something like 40mA at full power so we are hoping for a combined average of about 170 to 200mA load for the motor and actuators. Further development of this size plane will include a proper 3D fuselage and hopefully 2mm wall foam wings so we could save some weight over Depron. We are not planning to use undercarriage so the plane will land on the prop. Mark's gear box is designed to have the prop shaft fixed directly to the plane so it will be strong enough..
Final weighs could be 8 to 10 grams for a nice scale‘ish model. Hopefully a stable model can be flown in the smaller 4 and 6 badminton court size halls. Cost of such machines is about £40 depending on how much of it you make yourself.Twins
Lots of fun to be had with twins - Graham has made a nice DC3 Dakota, (see picture above) Mark has a couple of Bristol Beaufigthers under construction and Ray has ducted fan and U80 direct drive twins. You can steer with either differential thrust on the motors or using a rudder. If you use the Z Tron twin steer IR Rx you wont have a channel for retracts. Flight motors could be geared pagers or go for silent, direct drive using high resistance versions on the KP00 (M2V size motors). Mark has some that are 5.8 Ohms which use about half the current of the KP00 so two can be used with the 140mA polymer cell.
The 5.8 Ohm motor, direct drive with a Union 80 mm running from a 140mA polymer cell prop. produces 10 to 7g of thrust. This is good news because an 80 mm diameter prop scales to a twin of about 14” span. Mark's first Beaufighter weighs 25g with pop down retracts and uses 2mm Depron for the wing and 2mm wall foam for the fuselage. Using these motors we can see the model will fly very well at less than half throttle, which is ideal for twin motor steering.
The speed controllers in the Z Tron twin steer Rx can handle up to one Amp each - so why not use four geared pagers and build a 27” span B17 with a 180mA polymer cell, flaps, retracts, landing lights, moving turrets and anything else you can think of?
Mark's twin steer Catalina was 27” span ….Direct drive
Use a 5.8 Ohm M2V motor and one 140 mA cell with U80 prop. Make a streamlined mono plane that weighs about 14 to 16g flying weight. Gordon has made such a machine from a carved pink foam and it flies very well (although it uses a geared pager running from one of Grahams new voltage boosters, see below right)Direct drive indoor/outdoor
The motors from the “B2” stealth bomber park flyer kit use slightly less current than the Kenway (N2 size) motor It is sold as a spare from Perkins. Use a 140mA cell, U80 prop, direct drive and carve a blue foam model and you should have a 22 to 25g 15” span model
which flies silently and very well too. Dr Chris, Peter Frostick and Steve all have fine examples of this set up. Above, Steve with his and Peter's blue Spit in the gardenFree flight.
We are going way back in time here - Simon made electric powered Jigglets and Flitzers sing the old Panasonic Gold Cap capacitor and high resistance motors supplied by CMS, who are no longer able to supply them. He found that swapping the U80 prop for a thin blade yoghurt prop made it climb much higher - the opposite of what he was trying to achieve at the time! A modern version of this is to use the new 5 Farad Super cap with a 5.8 Ohm M2V motor. The prop could be home made or maybe one fo the plastic ones from FliteHook or GWS would work well - we have not had time to test anything yet. Mark will have a little 2mm Depron sports flier on Saturday to see what happens (it will go through the roof, Ed)
Simon also has some Super Caps so we will see how the olde planes go with the new cap.If you are interested in making some really small models we can help supply some of the parts. Mark has 2mm Depron, 5F Super Caps and some 5.8 Ohm M2V motors (profits to Aeronutz)
Graham has some of the gears and pager motors supplied by Didel. Gordon is making limited numbers of carbon fibre props,
Mark and Gordon are working on carbon props suitable for the new generation of micro planesNice to see that the restored full size DH 88 Comet is back in the air. A brief test flight went well until landing when one of the U/C legs collapsed at low speed. See the Shuttleworth web site for more details. DH88 Surely this plane would have been even more amazing in 1934 than the Mosquito was is the mid 1940s?
Can you guess what it is yet?
Yes it is finished!Peter Frostick has some of the new Super Caps and 5.8 Ohm M2V motors and is very pleased with them. He has a project in mind for thier use but its a secret for now. It goes without saying that it will be magnificent and fly perfectly .... as usual
So just 383 days to Christmas then, the days are getting longer and a chaps mind is on springtime and mini park/garden fliers - powered by Super Caps???
Carbon - Carbon, everywhere! Under the pillow and in my ear.
Mark has been gooed up over Christmas trying to develop ways of making parts for the new generation of micro planes. After several failures things are now looking good for very small items such as retracts, wing stiffeners, chassis for memory metal actuators. Integrated undercarriages are going to be a must for our new micro planes, Mark's 13" span Fokker Tri plane of three years ago suffered from serious damage to the U/C. First up for this integrated undercarriage system will be a 9" span Albatross. Mark is trying to make the legs, forward fuselage former and front cabane struts in one piece using carbon fibre. The flight motor will be supported by the front fuselage former so that a "heavy landing" will allow the stresses to be passed onto the undercarriage - depending what your definition of heavy landing of course! Fuselage and wings will be 2mm wall foam. Power will be supplied by either a direct drive 5.8 Ohm M2V or a geared page. Control system will be proportional three channel Z Tron IR using memory metal actuators.Newbies
If you want to make mini R/C planes I suggest you find an indoor place to fly.
Then make some free flight mini planes so you get used to the scale and ensure you can trim the planes.
Our mini planes are made from 2mm think wall insulation and Depron foams, so you have to be able work with these materials.
As far as the control system goes all you have to do is solder enamelled copper wire onto terminals on the circuit boards (no plug connectors) and get the parts inside the plane.
If you don't have a place to fly regulary (at least once a month) you will not be able to get the practice and expereince requiored.Here is Andrew H's in flight photo of Mark's Z Tron infra red controlled, 8g, Zero on its one good flight at our last event. It is of course a conversion of the Ikara rubber power model. He did well to get it in the frame at all!
The 40mA polymer cell is not a convenient shape for our use, it is about 1mm thick but 30mm x 35mm. Graham has gently bent one along the middle so it can be fixed along the wing dihedral break at the fuselage, maybe a little warmth would help this procedure? If you are going to have ago at converting an Ikara plane then don't forget to balance the plane with a bit of blue tak on one wing to off set the weight of the cell and motor? Its about 10" span by the way ....
Blue tits eat my nutz! Remember Benny Hill ? check out the news from the Daily Telegraph a few weeks ago. Takes time to down load
Here is one of Marks double geared 4mm pagers, should fit in a small planes nose ...
Pictured below is one of Mark's actuator test beds using memory metal. It is one of Matt's designs, see our web page. The photos here show the full deflection using 5v supply. The deflection was about 18 degrees and would normally be mechanically amplified by having a very small rudder control horn. A good actuator will need to be a good balance of power consumption, speed of movement and amount of deflection. The model will dictate the sensitivity of the controls (WW2 low wing fighter will be more sensitive) while the voltage of the flight motors power supply will dictate the current/lenght of wire. In this photo we can see that this amount of movement applied to an 8g Zero would be an unforgettable experience without using any more mechanical amplification ! Current changes to Matt's design include using a Teflon output arm while there are other mods under test which should allow the actuators to be made quicker and without the neighbours learning a range of new four letter words ! The test one here is about 30mm long and weights 0.35g. Mark is hoping for a combined rudder/elevator actuator at about 0.6g to 0.75g. The system should be optimized for direct connection to the 40mA cell with a voltage range of 4 down to 3v and be suitable for proportional control with the three channels Z Tron IR Rx, no circuit board or voltage booster. At launch the controls will be responsive but require more movement as the voltage drops through the flight, assuming the plane flies of course ..... a small detail we tend to overlook. You cant see the actual memory metal wire in these photos, in fact its so small you cant see it when its on a piece of white paper on the table in front of you either! More details later.
Flitehook will be coming on Saturday if the weather is OK
Model Flyer has been re named Radio Control Model Flier - so the news agents know its a model magazine. This months issue has a (huge) 29" span Albatross and is made from little bits of balsa? Ken has done a really nice job of the artwork. It uses 8 nicads so the weight could be drastically reduced by swapping over to polymer cells. Originally designed by John Watters who is Mike Watters dad me thinks? Maybe make one about 10" span from 2mm wall foam? Z Tron IR control, actuators, one 140mA polymer cell and direct drive motor so she flies in silence? Not forgetting a super paint job too - most important and not difficult when you have-a-go. Also in here is part one of Matt's article on Muscle Wire actuators. It seems there is a supplier of this mag in the US - contact wiseowl@sprintmail.com Photo on page 98 is Simon's Bristol freighter twin motor rubber power model, all 2mm wall foam.
Important Notice!
R/C fliers with planes that weigh over 25g must sit over where Dave Rigdway is. This is due to a couple incidence of stick and tissue R/C planes crashing onto peoples tables and smashing up F/F models - what's the point in the R/C system? These days this sort of thing is totally unacceptable.
Our next fun fly events are on Saturdays 25th Jan, 22nd Feb, 22nd March.
New machines from Matt
Above -The Ghostship Matt's test machine "Uses KP00 motor and gears, 140 li poly, custom CNC maple prop 4.8x3.1, Dynamics Unlimited Rx and actuators, converted for push rod operation. Kenway and Tamiya brand foams, 21 minute endurance flight time. My first coil-mag model"
Outdoor fliers seem to think prop hanging is the bees knees ... well here is Matts new indoor toy - yep a Pogo. Vertical take off of course. Nope it don't fly YET- but he is young and I am sure he will sort it all out before he goes to the great hangar in the sky ...Get well to Simon's dad, who will have quiet a scar after a stunt went wrong while working as the body double for 007 in the next James Bond movie. Check the scene where he loops the speed boat while wrestling the crocodile - tricky!
Infra Red Developments
Super charge your Z Tron receiver's coil outputs by adding transistors powering the actuator from the cell not the Rx chip. Mark has successfully done this to power his first test bed memory metal actuator which eats about 40mA at full deflection.Janne and the boys in Finland (currently home to Jack Frost) have developed a "black box" so you can use a std. R/C digital transmitter. This has the advantage of allowing the pilot to use the mixing functions and you can also have remote IR emitters - and more than one pack of remote emitters. Janne flies in his garden in the summer (When Jack is on holiday at the north pole) He says the system is compatible with Z Tron Rx units and he is willing to make a few for folks that are interested. He is sending one over for Mark to test. Janne says he is making a 7g IR plane, and why not Janne, cant be that difficult! Just sand the IR sensors down until you get to the circuit inside, like John did.
If you have a Mk3 Z Tron transmitter and you are not using it let us know as there are folks out there who are interested in buying them
Len T Grant
There are numerous grants out there, some with your name on.
Your chances of getting some realistic cash would be greatly enhanced if you are retried, have experience of working with kids/olde folks or teaching. Grants are more likely to be paid to projects with a clear specific purpose rather than general running costs. Ask you local council or contact Communities grants. Congratulations to Len who has a grant for teaching youngsters aeromodelling skills in the Belfast area.Bison Clear Adhesive glue is no longer in production, there are a few bottle about so might be a good idea to stock up? Be carefull to get the right stuff as there are similar looking bottle of Bison which dissolve foam. Peter Frostick says The Model Shop in Newcastle have some and Flitehook still have a little left.
Retracts progress.
Mark's new Beaufighter crashed about a bit at our last event but the retracts did not break. They where temporarily fixed down but they look to be strong enough for the job - such are the benefits of a light weight aircraft ! These undies where time consuming to make so Mark is working on a new method that will allow modest production runs.New Developments.
Mark is also trying to use 2mm wall foam for the wings of our new generation of micro planes. It is hoped a technique can be found which allows the weight of the plane to be transferred to the retracts without over stressing the wings. Twins such as Mosquitos and Beaufigthers could have the motors fixed to the structure of the retracts which should allow the planes very light, how about 20g for a Mosquito with retracts at 14” span?
Sergio at Z Tron is looking into a four channels IR system so we can use retracts
Above - Mark's first attempt at a 14" span Beaufighter's carbon fibre stiffener with fixing points for retracts and motors - note built in dihedralBelow - first attempt at integral undercarriage, former and cabane strut for new 9" span 12g three channels, Albatross. It is made from carbon fibre, Made using the jig seen above "can you guess what it is yet" Not even Rolf Harris would figure this one out.
Yes it is very small,
no it did not work very well,
yes the neighbours did learn some new swear words
Mark hopes to have his new Ikara Zero modified for our fun fly on Saturday so it will be more stable and hopefully it will have a rudder actuator too. It showed lots of promise at our last event. He is also hoping to have a NASA plane with geared pager, 40mA cell, proportional rudder and elevator actuators. It will be made entirely of 2mm foam and have the new wing stiffening. Should weigh about 10 or 11g and be about 10" span
Northrop upgrade Simon's yellow Northrop flying wing is being fitted with two of the new 5.8 Ohm M2 size motors (kpoo size) These will be powered by one 140mA polymer cell and direct drive U80 props. The result will be a silent, pure flying wing with 40 per cent more power, 15 percent less weight, 50 percent less current and 100 percent more battery capacity! It flew on half throttle with two 50mA cells and two direct drive KP00’s so it should fly on a quarter throttle now !
Nice to see lots of new folks, if you want any advice don't ask Bernard. Nice to see Wigston John's rubber and electric power free flight machines going well at our last fun fly. Why do John’ s electric Depron machines cruise effortlessly round while Bernard's smash into the roof and swoop wildly about? Maybe he could have a word and show him how its done? (ouch! Ed)
"I think we will give up making two cell Ni Cd planes…"
Moving air over foam causes static, The air over the top of the wing goes faster than the air under it. So therefore the is more static on the top of the wing. Bernard has been doing some tests to see if this static is creating a laminar flow effect which makes foam planes fly better than tissue covered ones. Results have been promising so Mark has added a carbon fibre leading edge to his wing to sea if we can induce more static onto the top of the wing. Special stainless steel pins link the foam wing to the carbon
AeroNutz post bag ...
"I was surfing the net with Majori this afternoon looking for a vendor of reasonably priced jam pot covers (writes Mrs E J Brown of Stoke Newington) when we came across your web site. We where interested in the multi engine toy planes and thought it might be nice to have a four motor Flying Fortress. This would of course have to have four motors as the original had four and any less would be cheating! Looking at the data on the web site I can see the limiting factor would be the size of the props. To make a small machine that looks reasonably scale the props would have to be very small diameter, but smaller prop are not very efficient and could only handle a small amount of power - what a pickle! I guess a small pager motor would be the answer? It would produced little power but have the advantage of being very light, this would seem to be the only course of action like to lead to success?So it would seem Mrs Brown, how astute of you. Hope you find your jam covers.
The new generation of micro planes are just starting to be flown - so it is goodbye Mark's huge model carrying box, last years two cells Corsair and Mig three. Hello smaller box full of mini planes ! Yippeee
Met vriendelijke groeten / Best regards / Mit freunlichen Grüssen / Salutations / Saluti cordiali
